ripple effect: vacaville


d92 The Witch of Endor
July 8, 2007, 11:58 am
Filed under: 1 samuel, abishai, abner, achish, ahinoam, david, god, michal, palti, samuel, saul, witch of endor

Read 1 Samuel 28:1-25.

[Things we're breezing past...

* David also got another wife named Ahinoam. As far as Michal (Saul's daughter) went, Saul actually gave her away to some guy named Palti.

* The Ziphites tipped off Saul again where David was. So Saul went with his army to track him down. He fell asleep surrounded by his soldiers, including his commander, Abner. David snuck into the camp with a guy named Abishai and got close enough to kill Saul. Of course, David wouldn't do it; but he instead took his spear and water bottle. David goes a distance from the camp and shouts out to Abner, telling him that he deserves to die for not keeping a good watch on the king. He tells him to check out Saul's spear and water bottle. What, oh...he must have snatched them! Saul heard David's voice and cried out to him. David again asked why Saul was chasing him, and Saul replied that David was a good man for not killing him. Then he went home, again. Deja vu.

* David decided that Saul would leave him alone if he lived with the Philistines, in Achash's palace. He did, and Saul did. Achish actually gave David a town to live in named Ziklag. He lived there for 16 months. David smartly raided the former inhabitants of the promised land to a) fulfill what God had called him to do in the first place and b) make it look like (to Achish) that David was a traitor to the Israelites (he wasn't killing Israelites, though!)]

Ever wonder where George Lucas got the name for the planets where the Ewoks lived? Maybe it was from this story…

1. Achish wanted David to fight with him against the Israelites. He says ok, but do you really think he’s going to fight against his countrymen?
2. Samuel has died. Then again, it’s not like he would have helped Saul in the first place. Also, Saul had kicked out all of the mediums and necromancers (people who communicate with the dead); but he needed to talk to someone because God wasn’t talking to him. So…genius comes up with the idea to go to a medium (witch?) in Endor. This Saul isn’t really that bright…
3. Saul actually has to go in a disguise to this “spiritist.” She balks at summoning a spirit because it was outlawed, ironically by Saul.
4. When Saul tells her to summon Samuel, instantly she freaks out and realizes that this guy was no other than the king himself. OK…first question, do you think (apart from God) that it is possible to communicate with the dead?
5. Saul bows to the spiritist in reverence to Samuel? What an idiot.
6. Samuel says that if God is against him, how can he be for him. That’s kind of a spin on “If God is for me, who can be against me?”
7. Samuel tells Saul like it is…”You’re going to lose. Remember when you didn’t kill those sheep or the king of the Amalekites? You know you do. You’re going to lose! Oh, and ‘p.s.,’ you and your sins are going to die tomorrow at the hand of the Philitines!” Wow. Saul going to this witch is going to literally be “the nail in the coffin.”
8. So Saul almost passes out because of the news and because he had not eaten. The woman urges him to eat, and he finally does. I guess this is the first “last supper.”

Hey, to me this chapter opens up a pandora’s box of questions about spiritists and mediums. People ask me all the time, “Do you believe in ghosts?” And this story actually has the “ghost” of Samuel talking to Saul through a woman. So…the basis of my beliefs is the Bible, and I have to at least admit that there might be some credibility in it. But, also notice the fact that Saul is punished mightily for seeking to talk to a dead person. What do you think?


16 Comments so far
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Hey, It has been awhile, but the Green Arrow is locked and loaded!

1.) Heck no he wouldn’t.
4.) No, I just think those fortune tellers are fake, and I think they just want the money.

* Now I think I can believe that back in those times about ghost. But the reason why I can’t believe now in days, because people fake there are ghost, too much that I don’t believe there are ghost. But if I meet a bible ghost, or Casper the friendly ghost, or any other friendly ghost I would start believing. For certain, I believe in the HOLY SPIRT!!!! BOO-YA!

But that’s all I have to say. Hope everyone have a nice day. I love you guys, bye.

Comment by The green arrow

sorry about that.

Comment by The green arrow

I missed you, Matt. That’s all I’m going to say about that.

Comment by supermannino

This is from Vacaville?

Comment by Radio Matthew

i don’t really believe in ghosts… i believe that God DOES get the info he wants us to have into our hands somehow though (if he wants us to have it). if you want to believe that the psychic or whomever knows your future, i think that if he or she was correct, it was only by sheer luck or by God. just like the Bible and people always saying, “Oh, there’s so much that was supressed and changed etc… how can you believe in it?” i think it’s just God’s way.

Comment by Atom Eve

Yes, Radio Matthew, it is.

Comment by supermannino

Atom Eve:

Interesting…so, I’m a little confused. Aren’t sheer luck and God’s will polar opposites? I mean, I think I know what you mean by that: I know that something can just be the result of a culmination of random events or something can be totally controlled by God. In a way, though, wouldn’t “sheer luck” fall in line with the effects of free will, whereas God’s involvement would be a result of God’s sovereignty.

If God is all-powerful, what is “sheer luck”? I guess that’s what I’m asking.

Comment by supermannino

sheer luck meaning, it’s nothing of importance or anything… they use intuition to tell you something that happens to be true. for example, you walk up to one of those “street psychics” and they size you up by your clothes/who you’re with and tell you something about yourself that happens to be true.

as opposed to divine intervention (probably not so common) whereby God directly puts into your hands, some sort of info via one of these medium — just kinda giving you a bigger picture of things or some sort of indirect communication — you still have free will to do with that info what you will, though, right?

Comment by Atom Eve

Hmm…yeah. I get it on the “magician” side. It’s just an interesting thing to think about I guess. In God’s economy, is there a such thing as a moment or thing that is “unimportant”? He he he…I feel like I’m in a philosophy class.

Comment by supermannino

Ok, so I was curious about this and did some quick research online. Here is what I found…first of all, reading Luke 16:19-26

“Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus
19 Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury. 20 At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus who was covered with sores. 21 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores.
22 “Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham.[e] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and his soul went to the place of the dead.[f] There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side.
24 “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’
25 “But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’”

Doesn’t verse 26 plainly say that there care no such things as ghosts?

Then, at http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/ghosts.html, I found this explanation…which was one of the rare coherent responses that I found

“In 1 Samuel 28 Saul asks for a woman who is a medium so that he can talk to her. This woman had spoken to a “familiar spirit” on many occasions. She made her living by doing so. This spirit was not the deceased loved one her customer wished to contact, but an evil spirit directed by Satan to imitate the deceased. On this occasion with Saul however, God allowed the actual spirit of Samuel to be contacted. This had never happened before (she expected the same deceiving spirit she had always seen) and the medium “cried with a loud voice” (verse 12).
God used this instance to show both his power and presence to the medium revealing himself as the one true God. He also used it to send a message of condemnation to Saul. ”

After the explanation, the writer also gives the corresponding notes from his/her Bible.

“1 Samuel 28:7, 12 (KJV)
(7)Then said Saul unto his servants, “Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her”. And his servants said to him, “Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor”.
Notes for 28:7 “familiar spirit”: Communication with spirits is as old as history, but has been strictly forbid- by God (Deuteronomy 18:9-14). The entities called by spirit mediums (a process called “channeling” in the New Age movement) are not the spirits of deceased human beings, as often claimed, but are evil spirits or demons, under the direction of Satan. When a spirit controls the body of a medium, essentially the body is demon possessed. Any “guidance” from such a source will inevitably be deceptive and dangerous, leading the one so deceived still further from the Lord.
(12) And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, “saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul”.
Notes for 28:12 “the woman saw Samuel” The “witch of En-dor” (I Samuel 28:7) undoubtedly expected to call up her own “familiar spirit” who could feign a message from Samuel. God, however, actually allowed Samuel’s own spirit to return to deliver one final message of condemnation to rebellious Saul. This is why the woman screamed out in shock and fear; her channeling had never before communicated with the departed spirits of real humans. ”

Just thought I’d give y’all more to think about…

Comment by miloisis

Wow…that’s pretty detailed. I’m at the airport with the youth right now. I’ll give an informed response later.

Comment by supermannino

OK, so I just reread that response; and I really want to thank you for adding so much to the discussion. I had forgotten about the “other” Lazarus’ story. And, you’re right. It appears as if Christ Himself is chiming in on the issue. As far as the “familiar” spirit goes. Yeah…I think you hit the nail right on the head. It reminds me of those Frank Peretti books, “This Present Darkness” and “Piercing the Darkness.” Amazing books about (what I think) is the true nature of spritual warfare.

Comment by supermannino

Y’know, I might not have much to add as far as comments, but I do like to research things…I guess that is my forte…Never read FP–maybe I’ll pick one of his books up!

Comment by miloisis

I highly recommend all of his books.

Comment by supermannino

i think it’s funny that Saul is looking for god’s guidence so he goes to a worker in the drak arts for help…

raising the dead they weren’t even supposed to touch dead things.

So David is allowed to live after going to the philistine land…he’s killed thousands of them by now including their biggest champion…literally

now he’s going to join the philistines in a battle against the isrealites…

nowonder Saul is going to lose David is fighting against him. looks like its tine for David to take rule of his kingdom.

Comment by wolverine09

Yeah, it is pretty remarkable how Saul seeks God through dark arts and David seems to be pledging allegiance to the bad guys.

Comment by supermannino




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