ripple effect: vacaville

d88 Old School Engagement Rings?
July 4, 2007, 10:10 am
Filed under: 1 samuel, adriel, david, jonathan, merab, michal, saul

Read 1 Samuel 18:1-30.

1. OK..I’m going at this one head-on. There are pockets of people (like some of my college professors) who think that David and Jonathan had a homosexual romance because of the first verse of this chapter. To me, that’s pretty primitive thinking–that the only way that I man can love another man deeply is if they have a desire to have sex with them. Yet, the theory is out there. Let me be the first to say that I love my wife with all my heart, and I think it would be weird for me to love any other woman with all my heart. But, I do believe that there are some guys in this world who I love with all my being too. I think Jonathan was inspired by and had a profound respect for David. Who wouldn’t? Anyway, David and Jonathan gay? There’s no evidence to support that. Any thoughts?
2. As far as Jonathan “stripping” his garment goes, this is a sign of acceptance and respect. Jonathan had special “princely” robes, and he gave them to David. He probably felt like David “deserved” them. What’s ironic is that he is Jonathan’s “competition” to be the next king, and he doesn’t even know that yet. Do you think Jonathan would feel any differently if he knew that David was the Lord’s new anointed king?
3. Don’t you think the women singing is a little over the top? I know that people get persnickety about their political leaders and like to lampoon them all the time (no one deserves that kind of harsh treatment), but this almost seems intentional, doesn’t it? “Saul, you aren’t the man. David is!”
4. David was quickly becoming the “people’s champion,” so Saul started to become paranoid.
5. How about Saul tossing a spear at David twice? Am I missing something here? Why would David stick around for the second throw? You see that there is more to this than meets the eye–God is behind David, not Saul. So…I guess my question would be, how control of his actions is Saul right now?
6. Saul says he’s going to give David his daighter, Merab, as his wife; but instead pawns off a foreign girl, Adriel. [edit: actually, upon further review (and help from Miloisis), Adriel was the guy that Saul tossed Merab to. So…David didn’t even get a girl in this deal.] Weird.
7. Talk about an engagement ring! Saul tries to get David killed (because of his love for his daughter, Michal) by telling him that he needs 100 Philistine foreskins as the price to marry her. Hmm…and I thought diamond rings were hard to get!
8. I love David’s “overkill.” He decides to get 200. I’m thinking that a Philistine isn’t just going to let you cut the skin of his penis, so he probably killed them all. In a way, a plot from Saul ends up accomplishing God’s work by destroying 200 Philistines.
9. Imagine being Saul. David brings a baggy full of foreskins, and he has to give David his daughter. That would tick me off as a dad. And the fact that he is his “rival” only makes it worse.

Any thoughts about Saul, David, or God?


7 Comments so far
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1. Wow—I must say, you floored me with that homosexual comment. Of course I realize that that is not what YOU believe, but I just wanted to say that when I read that passage, a gay relationship did not even enter my mind! I suspect that these people are perhaps on the liberal side of the scale and are looking for ways to prove that the Bible supports homosexuality? I don’t know—just my thought.

2. Over the top? Yep…but all part of the master (or should I say “Master’s”) plan… Besides, the shallow person in me says that Saul deserved the taunting. He was such a jerk.

5. My guess is that he is not in control. He is controlled by rage and jealousy.

6. Saul does not pawn off a foreign girl, he gives his daughter, Merab, to a foreign man (Adriel from Meholah). “So when the time came for Saul to give his daughter Merab in marriage to David, he gave her instead to Adriel, a man from Meholah”

7. I’ll take diamonds over foreskin any day of the week, and I’m pretty sure my dad would agree with that! 🙂

Comment by miloisis

Diamonds over foreskins! Yeah…I totally misread that part about Adriel. I think the thing that threw me off was that I once knew a girl named Adriel. Thanks for keeping me accountable though.

Comment by supermannino

It was the custom when 2 people “cut” covenant that they would exchange cloaks – symbolising giving of themselves to each other and would exchange swords, basically saying “I will stand by you & defend you. If anyone attacks you, they attack me.” We need to understand true covenant!

Comment by Neil Laing

OK…I can see that. Do you have any sources for that information? I am curious to learn more about this custom but am having a hard time researching it through the InterNet. Ironically, I actually came upon some gay Christian web sites that were trying to rationalize the whole David/Jonathan relationship.

Comment by supermannino

Johnathan is one of God’s men with the faith of a true believer…i could see Johnathan and David being good friends kinnda like two peas in a pod.

Gay relationship? sure they where happy wouldn’t you be? ha ha j.k. i doubt they where homosexuals because David gets a wife…and Johnathan probably already has one…maybe two since he’s prince.

So yeah that’s a little odd…foreskins for marriage? what’s he going to do with a hundred foreskins? and now he’s got an extra hundred…

Imagine opening that ring box ha ha…get down on one knee…slowly lift the lid…is it earrings, a ring what is it…none of the above…i lovve you so mcuh that i slaughtered 200 Philistines and cut skin off of their man parts now will you marry me?

Comment by wolverine09

Yeah, “two peas in a pod” doesn’t mean lovers, though.

Yeah, the theory is out there; that’s all I’m saying. I definitely don’t think it holds any credibility. It’s one thing to make a fictional character like Albus Dumbledore gay; it’s an entirely different thing to make two real people gay just because you want them to be.

It sounds like something that would be on Survivor: China.

So romantic.

Comment by supermannino

Very nice article!

Comment by yearsandmiles

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